Tennessee Firearms Assoc. Inc.

How long is too long to be detained? I carried my handgun in Radnor Lake State Park today and ended up almost being charged with a crime of 39-17-1311. I was detained for 2.5 hours, from 4:30pm to 7:00pm. The responding officer asked me to sign a citation saying I had violated 39-17-1311. I told him I voiolated no law and asked to speak with his supervisor. The sergeant finally came and after 2.5 hours I was released without being charged with a crime. I think 2.5 hours is a little excessive. Don't these guys get training in how to identify handguns?

Three park rangers and 6 cops for a total of nine law enforcement agents. I was detained and then almost arrested. The citation was filled out and I objected to the charge and asked to talk with the guys sergeant. It took a long time for the sgt. to arrive and longer for them to figure out that it truely was a handgun.

My firearm meet all the legal requirements of a handgun. The manufacturer sells it as a handgun and when I transfered it at a local dealer it was marked on the 4473 as a pistol. It is an AK-47 semi automatic pistol and has no stock (never had one) and an 11.5" barrel.

I can understand a few minute detention to check my permit, but 2.5 hours is over the top, IMO.

Keep in mind that firearms law is pretty convoluted and most gun enthusiasts can't keep it straight! It's almost impossible for the police to be up to date on what is/isn't a handgun, rifle, shotgun, destructive device, AOW, etc. Let's face it, ATF can't keep it sorted out and they're the supposed 'experts'!
Add to that the common view on firearms shown on TV and movies and it's easy to understand why the simple view of ANY firearm almost always gives a cop apoplexy!

As for taking 2.5hours to sort out the situation, I don't see that as really excessive. I was stopped for a broken taillight once, and the cop entered my license wrong. Seems a person with one digit off my number was wanted for several violent crimes. THAT took over 12 hours to sort out! Even though my name, vehicle registration, and appearance were totally at odds with who they thought I might be.

Once the system has you, it is in no hurry to let you go.

It is an example of Metro (including park) officers not being advised of the change in the law. I would suggest

a) write to your council person and each of the 5 council members are large. An email will work but request a read receipt.

b) write a complaint to Serpas office.

A detention for that period of time is an "arrest" and under these circumstances its a false arrest.

Citizens should not and can not simply tolerate this kind of conduct. We need to complain to appropriate supervisors - in writing - and force them to properly train the men and women on the street as to the change in the law and the personal liability arising from false arrests.

Is this news story about the situation related by the OP?

I think it is important for supporters of the right to keep and bear arms to understand that situations such as this do NOT help us restore and protect our Second Amendment rights. Quite the contrary, all it does is hurt us by motivating and giving ammunition to those who seek to disarm the populace. Having the right to do something does not necessarily mean that doing it is a good idea. We must use our heads and think about how the public will perceive our actions. Running around a state park, especially one in Davidson County, with a weapon that resembles a military rifle does not show discretion nor does it represent us as the law-abiding, peaceful, friendly folks that the overwhelming majority of HCP holders and TFA members are. For many such conduct is downright scary. Whether their fear is justified or not is irrelevant when it comes time to vote. Sadly, we are no longer a constitutional republic. There are people who support the right to carry, there are people who oppose the right to carry, and there are people who are not sure. Do not give those who are undecided a reason to support the other side. Use good judgment, make good decisions, and we can win this fight. Whether or not you recognize it, as a Handgun Carry Permit holder you represent all of us.

Dan

My personal take on this-

This type of challenge to authority serves no good purpose to our endeavor to further 2nd Amendment issues in the State of Tennessee.

If the poster had been dressed in civilian attire, and was accosted for no good reason and held, that would be one thing. But to appear dressed in military garb, sporting what to the uninitiated would appear to be an illegal weapon is lunacy from my view point. With the recent spate of LEO shootings, I would suspect the officers would take a dim view of such an occurrence.

I see no good coming of such an action, and am surprised the OP did not wind up with several new holes for his trouble.

To be honest.....I'm surprised they didn't force you down to the ground at gunpoint. I think it was a childish move to carry such an intimidating "handgun" openly in an area who's laws are still too new for most to fully understand. I see no difference from this and dressing in camo and going to a bank to open carry just for shock value.

A BIG +1 to the comments by Dan, David, Richard, and GraceOutcast...

If you want to play Rambo, man-up and go to your local recruiting office. Let some other soldier that has already served his country come home to his family and you go serve in his place. Running around in camo with a Krink pistol openly displayed might be completely legal, but it does nothing to promote our cause - it just helps the other side.

Regardless of what actually happened, WSMV saw an opportunity to hurt our cause by describing the weapon as an AK-47 with the barrel cut down and a pistol grip. Regardless of the fact that it may have been sold/transferred as a pistol, the media was given information describing the weapon as a cut down AK-47... And the sheeple are not smart enough to know the difference, so they will go to their representatives and ask them to fix this. Gee, thanks for the help...

Are you still going to go to Bicentennial Mall just to see what would happen? I see that you have already seen the effects of your actions when you tried to purchase a supressor... Ever heard the phrase "When you're in a hole, stop digging"?

Your actions have hurt us all...

-Mike

Look, Leonard (kwikrnu), what you did was perfectly legal. We all recognize that.

However, what you did was also incredibly stupid. Please enlighten us what positive purpose was served by your foolish actions? I've been unable to discern any, unless you count getting your name bantered about in the news media & on the internet as a positive thing?

If you want to show off your Krink (AK pistol), take it to a range, where it will be appreciated by other shooters...rather than traipse through the woods scaring the sheeple.

Many, many people have worked incredibly hard to achieve the banner year for firearms rights that we've just experienced (setbacks and all, it was still a good year). We're about to enter into a new session of the legislature, in which we hope to build on what we've already accomplished, and correct any errors that were made.

As Mike, Richard, & others here, and pretty much everyone else on every board I've visited have pointed out: your actions hurt us all.

David

MOS? Ever deployed?

I have problem being detained. It is the way I was detained and the length of time.

First ranger sees my permit. Says my AK is pistol and lets me go. He calls it in to the second ranger.

Second ranger jumps out of his truck pointing a shotgun at me and yelling at me to drop the weapon and orders me face into the cement. He tells the other ranger he recognizes me from a previous visit to the park. I remember him asking to see my carry permit prior to this incident.

Now, if I was no threat to the first ranger, why did the second ranger feel the need to point a loaded shotgun at me 20-30 minutes later?

is the audio of the first ranger and I you've got to forward to about 28:40.

Transcript 12-20-2009
Approximately 4:00pm
This is an audio recording of the first ranger I met. He was approximately 50 yards west of the lake trail exit point. He ended his conversation with another man as I approached.
28:40 is when the audio begins with the ranger (R).
Me: It’s a chilly one today.
R: Hey, bud.
Me: Yeah?
R: Airsoft?
Me: No, it’s a handgun. You can touch it.
R: Why do you have that? Do you have a permit?
Me: Here you go. (I showed him my valid Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit)
R: Why do you have that?
Me: Because it’s legal to carry in the park.
R: Technically that’s not a handgun.
Me: Yeah it is.
R: No it’s not.
Me: Yeah it is.
R: No.
Me: Uh huh, I guarantee it. It’s a handgun. It’s never had a butt stock attached and it’s 11.5” long.
R: Which side are you parked in?
Me: Uh, the one down the road. (pointing)
R: Okay, I mean technicaly it’s legal, but I don’t see why you need that out here.
Me: I was told by another ranger you had a lot of poachers and stuff out here.
R: No.
Me: Really?
R: Hold on a second. Let me check this. I’m pretty sure an AK47 is not a handgun
Me: How’s it going? (I spoke to a man passing by who was looking at us)
Man: That’s not real is it?
Me: Yeah, AK47, 7.62x39, 31 rounds.
Me: I’m going to record you. I’m recording right now.
Me: Which side of the road are we supposed to walk on over here anyway? This side right? Bikes on that side right? As long as they don’t run you over.
Me: I knew I would run into a ranger one of these times.
R: Well, the orange threw me off.
Me: Yeah, it’s a custom orange color paint job.
R: Makes phone call.
Me: Well, it’s a handgun. Are you checking on me or do you want me to keep on going?
R: keep going.
Me: You guys can meet me at the end if you have any questions. I’m in a little black Honda Civic.