Ammunition and Reloading Forum

[C. Richard Archie]

Seeking ever to expand our service to the shooting public, I asked John to consider adding this topic to our forums.

I have been involved in reloading since early in my youth. Discretionary funds for a teenager who loved to hunt and shoot being in short supply, I learned to stretch my dollars via reloading. Growing up in rural West Tn, sources of anything but standard issue ammunition were scarce, and a desire to expand the usefulness of the weapons at hand relegated me to reloading as a method of making one type of arm do multiple chores. My mother, a chemistry teacher, worried about the advisability of turning one of her children loose with powder and primers, and at the advent of my carrier, stood watch over my actions. (Probably a good thing, as I still have all my fingers, toes and eyes to this date.) She required that I purchase along with the RCBS Jr. press, every written form of instruction available for study, prior to allowing the purchase of powder, primers and bullets. My father, being the frugal individual that he is, was all for any opportunity for savings, and blessed my endeavor, suggesting that I branch out into shot shell reloading as well. The MEC 600 that I received for Christmas in my 16th year still does it's job to this day.

I hope to create a service here that will allow for sharing of information relative to tools, techniques and processes that allow for best case management, proper and safe procedures relative to correct use of components. I have made it a point to keep abreast of innovative methods and the ever expanding assortment of powder, primers and projectiles for use in metallic and shot shell production.

With the recent ascension of the current administration, components have become increasingly scarce, as the general fear of increased taxes and suggested tightening of the availability of ammunition has caused a run on both loaded ammo and the makings for rolling our own. I would hope that we can use this forum as a clearing house for information as to the availability of components intrastate, as the purchase in state is normally less expensive, and precludes HAZMAT shipping.

I make it a point to stay up to date on the legality and best methods of shipping ammo and components, a tricky morass of rules and opportunities for rip-off to occur to the uninformed.

In no way do I know it all when it comes to the art of stuffing my own, but I do have contacts throughout the industry and community, and will do my best to research and provide as much information as possible.

[johnharris]

Richard, I have a pretty good collection of once fired Remington 30-06 brass because for years I operated on the assumption it was so cheap at WalMart that I really did not need to reload at my annual consumption rate. Of course, I was buying 9mm, 40 and 45 on the same theory but in bulk. As I have watched prices rise, I have repeatedly reconsidered the issue.

I would be curious to know what kind of equipment is involved for a starter to do pistol and rifle ammo.

[C. Richard Archie]

About the only thing that requires more paraphernalia than reloading is owning a horse, duck hunting or being married, and just as each of these can be done with a minimum of accouterments, the available options are boundless.

There are basic steps to follow for metallic reloading, i.e. rifle and pistol rounds,

First, an understanding of the process:

The basic make up of any round, and I divide reloading into shot shell and metallic on the basis of the make up of the cartridges, the two are different in many respects, tough similar in that there is a container for the components in each. Rifle and pistol rounds have a casing that is made up entirely of metal, as opposed to shot shell which will have a metallic base and plastic or paper wall section. Both have primers, powder and a payload. In shot shells, that is sometimes shot, other times a single projectile, round ball or slug.

The primer contains a mixture of materials that will detonate, producing a spark, replacing the flint and steel of the first firearms. This park causes the burn of a powder charge, in times past that was black powder, today we use "smokeless" in our modern arms, though black powder is still a viable option, and many states have seasons specifically for their use, but these discussions will relate to smokeless, as it is more generally used today, and is the propellant type for all modern cartridges.

Gunpowder burns upon ignition, and the rapidly expanding gases produced are what causes the projectile to be forced down the bore. The various powders burn at different rates, depending on size of capacity of a case, and the type of projectile, their applicability is encoded in the various manuals provided by powder manufacturers, bullet makers, and even weapon manufacturers. These manuals are the "recipe" books of the reloading realm. They are produced to be guidelines for the reloader, and I suggest that any one beginning the process purchase several different sources, each will lend specifics for their applications.

There are several producers of reloading equipment, and each will have instruction manuals for the use of their products. These are very good sources of information as well. To name a few of those available today, RCBS, Lyman, Redding, Lee, and Dillon are among the better known suppliers.

For a beginning layout, these are the steps that will be needed.

1. Case prep, cleaning the used case and bringing it back to usable condition.
2. Physically altering the spent cast to proportions allowing it to be recharged.
3. Addition of new primer, powder and projectile.
4. Crimping the projectile if necessary.

There are various types of case cleaners, from vibratory ones that use crushed walnut shells or ground corn cob media, to tumblers that can use the same media or other types, or chemical procedure.

A press is required, either bench mounted or hand held, to hold the various dies needed to "work" the case back to a condition that affords it to be used again. Steps required are to deprime, or remove the expended primer, resize the case to allow it to be chambered, a powder charge is then inserted, the projectile is placed and seated, and depending on the application, the projectile may need to be crimped in place. There are various types of presses, from simple hand held units, to elaborate "Progressive" presses that feature the ability to speed up the process. Each of the major manufacturers offer "kits' that will include the basic needed tools, complete with dies specific to a caliber.

My advice to the novice is to start with a "single stage" press kit. Dies are threaded to allow them to be inserted into the press at the proper elevation for work on specific cartridges. For pistol rounds, normally the dies consist of a deprime/resize die, a bell die that will expand the case mouth to accept the new bullet, a seat die that places the new bullet at the proper length, and a crimp die to squeeze the case mouth to hold the projectile in place against recoil, sometimes the seat and crimp die are one in the same, especially with revolver rounds, the specialized needs of semi autos require a different type of crimp, as the revolver normally “headspaces” (the function of holding the case in place for firing) on a rim at the base of the case, while semi autos headspace on the mouth of the case, their rim being the same diameter as the case itself, and used as a gripping area for the extraction.

These days, most manufacturers offer “carbide” dies, which are made to function without lube during the resizing step, if a carbide type is not used, then each case has to be lubricated to prevent “sticking” in the resize die.

“Bottleneck” rifle cases always require lubrication, even if carbide dies are used, due to the geometry of their construction. The addition and removal of lubrication is another step in the preparation of rifle cartridges normally not needed with pistol rounds.

Rifle cases also stretch in length upon firing, and will require being trimmed from time to time.

Another useful step in providing longevity of rifle cases is annealing, looked at with disdain by some, and as an absolute necessity by others.

A scale for weighing powder charges is mandatory, either balance beam type or electronic.

I will find and post far better descriptions as time allows. Meanwhile, checking the web sites of the various manufacturers will afford the new loader a wide reach of information.

[C. Richard Archie]

One of the best basic descriptions of the tools and steps for the beginning reloader can be found here, well done and thorough.

http://forum.pafoa.org/ammunition-reloa ... first.html

[Grunt67]

[johnharris]

[Grunt67]

[C. Richard Archie]

[Grunt67]

[C. Richard Archie]

Discounting brass, you cost per 50 round load out will be $9.36. This necessitates buying in bulk, powder 8lbs., bullets (figured Ranier 165 gr. Lead Safe) and primers 1k at the time. Cost per 20 rounds is $3.76

Of course that is pure component cost, no factor for new dies, or time is made.

Purchase of once fired brass, normally around $35.00/k will raise the price to $4.46/20, $11.14/50.

[Grunt67]

[C. Richard Archie]

Pure cast lead bullets will lower that cost some, jacketed bullets will raise it, I hit a middle of the road for average.

Shopping sales for components will always give you better prices. I used $140.00/K on bullets, $140.00/8 lbs. powder, primers at $35.00/k. Those are reasonable cost that you can find in State.

[Grunt67]

Just out of curiosity, and for discussion's sake, has anyone seen an increase in availability of reloading components
in your area lately? Locally, I have been able to pick up a few primers & bullets @ the Reloaders Bench in Mt. Juliet
lately. Somewhat luck as to being there at the right time, but enough to reload a few, as compared to 0 a few weeks
ago. Still no primers available online for small pistol. Some Speer bullets available for .400 cal. Powder hasn't been
much of a problem.
What's going on with you folks?

[C. Richard Archie]

I have been able to replenish my primer supply, and have to admit, to having loaded up somewhat. I am still buying small rifle primers whenever I come across them, just to be sure I am not faced with another drought. I have also re-supplied some of my bullet lack, albeit taking longer than I would like. I waited 6 months for some pills for a project I am working on, (.225 Win AI) I wanted to see if my particular barrel would spin the Sierra 65 gr. Gamekings, but nobody had any, on the shelf or online, finally got a couple of boxes in the last month.

My advice is to buy components when you find them, and try to keep at least 2 years supply ahead of your need.

[Butch Butler]

We are not seeing any supplies here in Union City.Factory ammo is getting better except for 380's.
Butch Butler

[C. Richard Archie]

To be truthful, I have had my best luck locating components at The Franklin Gun Shop

I make enough trips to Nashville that I can call and slide by, they will let me pay via credit card and hold my purchase till I can get up there. Really nice group of guys to deal with.

Then there is Graff and Sons, Mid-south, Midway, Recobs, and Connie's Components, all online sources.

[TacticaLogic]

I have found that just about all of the powder manufacturers now list reloading data on their websites. The two I use most often are Alliant and Hodgdon. I just make sure to start with a 10% reduction from their maximum load weights, and then work up from there. I find them helpful in that they list more than one bullet manufacturer, and in that they list the most popular bullets. Both sites make sure to list "Case Overall Length." Both sites (more often than not) provide more information about a specific load than what is usually found in the normal bullet manufacturers' manuals.

Alliance Powder: This has just about everything covered...

Hodgdon Powder: Note that this site contains all information for Hodgdon, IMR, and Winchester powders - they are all owned by Hodgdon.

Hope this is helpful... I usually cut and past the information to a MSWord document (set page format to "landscape" for best fit) and then keep it at my reloading bench. It sure beats having to run back to the computer for a doublecheck of a weight or the verification of the correct primer.

-Mike

[C. Richard Archie]

Great post TacticaLogic, thanks!