Tennessee Police Stops with an Open Carrier question(s).

[Markus]

I pride myself in knowing the Constitution of the United States and most relevant laws, but I've heard conflicting reports on just how to handle police or sheriff's deputy's when pulled over on a traffic stop. I've looked here as well, but if it's here I missed it.

So, hypothetically if a LEO pulls me over in my truck and I'm carrying a .45ACP large frame semi-auto and one or maybe two of my backups concealed what is required of me by Tennessee Law and what can the LEO do in response to learning I have a legal permit and Open Carry?
I heard of course that when stopped one must give HGC permit over with Driver's License immediately, but what about this seizure crap. My brother was stopped once and the LEO seized his weapon until the traffic stop was over "for his safety and mine(the LEO)". What absurd pretense is there for seizure of someone's firearms under a traffic stop aside from a LEO's "feelings" or illogical "fear" when it comes to HGC permit holders keeping their gun's holstered and safe during a police traffic stop?

Of course I do not wish to be Murdered by a LEO due to illogical personal fear(or what I believe more likely the desire to run guns to see if they are stolen)or doing something they consider wrong(and isn't), but I wish to know what they are allowed by Law in Tennessee to do in regards to seizure of your weapon(s) without probable cause and without a warrant. Are they legally allowed to just seize your guns for the duration of their "stop" on you? If not how the Hell would you refuse such a thing without getting a Law Enforcement Issued gun put in your face by said LEO and hearing idiotic screaming of "HANDS UP! GET OUT! ON THE GROUND!,etc,etc,etc,etc.". PRAY they are educated? I myself require some education in this area so any clarification on personal rights while being confronted by Law Enforcement while Open(or Conceal) Carrying with a traffic stop or just on the street would be much appreciated.

Thank you,
Markus

[SomeGuy]

I would suggest, before asking blanket questions, a thorough read of the relevent TN law.

One thing you state that is for example not required by law is to hand over your HCP with DL. TN does NOT require you to notify a LEO, ever. If he asks, be honest, lying is illegal for the common citizenry, but you do NOT have to volunteer this information.

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/tncode/

39-17 part 13 is the main section.

Also, know the self-defense section as well, 38-2, and 39-11 Part 6.

[Idahoser]

yeah I wouldn't just automatically hand the permit over. The subject of whether I'm armed is irrelevant to a traffic stop until he asks me to get out, then I notify him.

What he chooses to do about it at that point is all up to him, I'm not arguing with him even if he's wrong.

[Markus]

Well the following BS code is what I was looking for...
"(t) Any law enforcement officer of this state or of any county or municipality may, within the realm of the officer's lawful jurisdiction and when the officer is acting in the lawful discharge of the officer's official duties, disarm a permit holder at any time when the officer reasonably believes it is necessary for the protection of the permit holder, officer or other individual or individuals. The officer shall return the handgun to the permit holder before discharging the permit holder from the scene when the officer has determined that the permit holder is not a threat to the officer, to the permit holder, or other individual or individuals provided that the permit holder has not violated any provision of this section and provided the permit holder has not committed any other violation that results in the arrest of the permit holder."

They "reasonably believe it is necessary" for no other reason than checking the serials in most cases I have little doubt and in the case of my brother who did not even exit is vehicle. "reasonably believe" is far too broad a term to put into law. "Reasonably believe" could be anything they say/create. Now could one challenge this "reasonably believe" crap if your weapons are seized while in complete compliance with the law? Or perhaps it's just one of those "things" that is ignored by ALL LEO's and Citizens..except me because I don't believe they have the Right to seize someone's firearm for any reason unless they've broken the law. Temporarily seizing a permit holder's weapons at a traffic stop for a traffic violation such as speeding or not stopping completely at a Stop sign from a legal carrier is to me...imbecilic and pointless. I do not like pointless laws. It should be required Probably Cause or Warrant for even a temporary seizure.
The current law is seizure with "Reasonable Suspicion" basically which in any other case would not warrant the seizure(or search) of anything.

[ProguninTN]

[SomeGuy]

[ProguninTN]

SK,

That link represents more or less what I was trying to convey. I guess I just convoluted things. Oops.

[Ed__357]

Your Tennessee Handgun Carry Permit is tied to your Driver's License. They even have the same number. When a police officer pulls you over, most of the time they run your "Tags" before they approach you at your window. They already know who you are, unless somebody else is driving your car. And since they already know who you are, they already know that as a permit holder, you might be carrying at the time. I have only been stopped twice in the 15 years I have had a permit, and both times I told the officer that I was carrying and presented my permit. Once in Nashville, and once in Franklin. Both times went well. The officers were pleasant and professional, and both times I was given a warning and "NOT" given a ticket. In fact, the Franklin Officer stood at my window and chatted about 10 minutes about guns and shooting. A very friendly guy and conversation.

[MickyFite]

I think something to keep in mind is the cop doesn't know you. *YOU* know you are part of the 99.99% of HCP holders that have not and will commit a crime etc, but how does the cop know this?

Seriously, think about this a second. What I just said above is BS. Almost every single HCP carrier has committed a crime since they got their permit. Chances are that's the reason you got pulled over. So how is the cop to know you simply didn't see the stop sign, etc? Is it conceivable that you ran it because you are distraught over the fact that you just murdered a family member? Yep it is. Unlikely, but ignoring that possibility is what leads to cops getting killed on traffic stops.

[SomeGuy]

[MickyFite]

[SomeGuy]

[MickyFite]

@Someguy

Edited to delete frivolous, and admitted by the poster below OT nonsense. Do not waste time with posts attempting to prove your untrue point that we are criminals and deserve what we get. -SG

Now all of that is OT. A cop's primary concern is going home at night with out a trip to the ER first. Having a HCP does not mean you CAN NOT or WILL NOT commit a violent crime. Therefore, yes I believe a cop is well within his rights, assuming all is is legit, to disarm someone he stops. Again, he doesn't know you. You know you. But he doesn't, therefore taking it personally that he considers it possible you are a criminal is, well, unreasonable.

[SomeGuy]

[MickyFite]

Off topic.