A different view of posting property.

[PapaB]

In the ask TFA section there's a discussion about posted medical facilities. It got me to thinking (someone protect the children, this could get ugly) about the fact that posting says more than "no guns allowed". The silent message is "we're suspending your 2nd Amendment right to bear arms". Thinking of it that way makes me ask "what other Constitutional rights do you expect me to give up to do business with you?"
In the case of Medical facilities, where there may be little or no choice, perhaps we should start writing letters to the editor asking that very question. Imagine if, in order to get medical care, you had to suspend your religious beliefs or your 4th Amendment right against unreasonable searches and seizures. Would the general public find laws allowing those things to be acceptable?
Sometimes (often) I see things from more than one direction. Sometimes it's good, othertimes, not so much. In this case, let each decide for themselves.

[Sky King]

I certainly understand your point of view and can't say I disagree with it. (Yes, there is a "BUT"). Most of these medical facilities are private facilities. Being private property, they retain the right to control activity on their property. While I am a STRONG advocate for being able to retain your weapon at least in your vehicle and have been working for the past several years for a parking lot bill, I am sensitive to private property rights and feel we have to tread intelligently when we look to legislate weakening property rights. There must be a balance.

When it comes to medical facilities, one could say that since there are times when going to a hospital emergency room is not an option, we should be allowed to retain our weapon as we did not go there by choice. Again, there needs to be intelligent balance.

[PapaB]

I agree with the property rights issue and don't think privately owned facilities should be required to allow carry if they don't want to. I wonder how many property owners have never thought about the issue as I outlined it. I'm sure there are many that would still post but it might cause some to change their mind. I'd like to see the legislature think about it when they're considering bills that will affect our rtkba.

[macville]

Let's be honest. Lawyers are the reason that 99% of places post. So change the law so lawyers don't have a reason to say, "you should post for liability reasons."

[Usagi]

Private property is one thing, but a property owner being given the sole option of determining when a select group of individuals are committing a crime is way beyond property rights.

Current laws on trespassing are more than adequate. We need to do away with legal ramifications for posting.

[Fred762]

Ok PapaB, here's another way I look at it: A posted property tells honest folks that it is illegal for them to carry a personal firearm..I'll grant that one. But, what does that mean? Does it also mean that the OWNER of the PP has taken any steps to help guarantee that YOU are protected from a mugger or rapist or murderer who decides to come INTO that PP with an illegal GUN and rob and rape you? Hell no it does not mean that and WE all know it.

What does posting really mean?

1. you give up your means of self-protection..first and foremost.

2. you go BACK to 'olden times'(before guns) and simply trust blind LUCK to protect you and your family inside, going to and going out of that posted property..until YOU can get back to wherever YOU left yer roscoe.

3. it almost GUARANTEES that the armed criminal will face a bunch of DISARMED potential victims inside that posted place! T o the criminal the Posted sign screams: "come HERE and rob and rape as you will not face angry armed v ictims"

THAT is what POSTING really means.

[benburke]

I agree Fred. So, the question is how do we convince those who do not agree? We must continue with our compelling arguments, statistics, and sincere desires to educate those who do not understand. As you've previously stated, "Gun control is not about guns; it's about control." When those in authority, and yes that includes property owners, realize they do not have control over the criminal minds and the psychotic minds, then they will be able to appreciate the increased sense of security they will be guaranteed by NOT posting their property. Criminals do not want to face a potential victim who is armed. Neither do most psychopathic individuals. Therefore, we must continue to educate those who do not understand the importance of law abiding citizens carrying a weapon. We cannot give up in our pro gun objectives. Change the laws. Change their minds. Everyone's safety is paramount.

[C. Richard Archie]