Questions Regarding TICS Denial

[socalarmypilot]

Greetings,

I'm new to the board, but I have some questions about my recent TICS denial. I am in the military and have been stationed here in TN since 1998. I have purchased guns in TN without any problems until June of this year. So, I try to purchase, they run the background through TBI, TBI denies me, I fill out the appeal form and fax it on the spot. A few weeks later I get a packet in the mail from TBI stating they denied me based on the fact that I was arrested for Robbery in 1994 (arrested mind you, not tried or convicted). In this packet was an R-84 form that I was to send back to the court in California so TBI could have final dispostion on the matter. Pursuant to California code, the courts are allowed to destroy records after five years. All they maintain at this point is name, charge, and date. So, the court in California is unable to provide any documentation. I've also contacted the California Dept. of Justice. All they keep is a record of the same and they've been no help either. I've also contacted the FBI NICS folks and all they would tell me is to do what TBI is asking me to do. However, the information TBI is after has been destroyed by the courts. My criminal record shows the arrest and that there is no conviction associated with the charge, but they are wanting more concrete paperwork (they keep saying a "final dispostion"). It is my understanding that I can be denied for certain convictions, but certain charges that I was never convicted of? This seems absurd. Again, I've live here since 1998 and this has never been an issue until now.
So then.....

-Why am I being denied a firearms transfer based on a charge that I was never convicted of? Is this even a legal basis for a denial?

-Aside from getting a lawyer and going up against the State of Tennessee in court, can anybody think of any other appeal options I might not have tried?

Thanks in advance for any help or advice you all may be able to provide.

[johnharris]

Under TN law (TCA 39-17-1316) the burden is on TBI to prove that you are not qualified to purchase a firearm once you challenge a denial. TBI only has 15 days by law to do this. If they do not do this, then they have to issue either a proceed or conditional proceed.

Now, as to the R84, all California has to do is to complete it based on its existing records. While California may delete its paper records, it will not be deleting records of convictions. I have seen this frequently as the paper criminal records across the country are an absolute MESS and that, thank you federal government, often creates regular problems for people who have been arrested but the charges are dismissed, retired or just never concluded.

Under TN law, however, TFA several years ago was aware of this problem and specifically amended the purchase statute to put the burden of the computer and paper records mess on the government - not the individual.

[socalarmypilot]

Thanks John.

TBI took their full 15 days and placed into a "conditional proceed" status. That's the same time they sent out the R-84 to "assist" me in cleaning up my record. However, this particular dealer will not transfer on a conditional proceed (and as far as I know that call is on the FFL).

In the letter that TBI sent me, there is a bullet that states: "A statement that NO RECORD WAS FOUND" or some similar wording is insufficient for a final disposition. The court in California has filled out and sent back to TBI both the R-84 and a Superior Court Records search on me. The charge in question does not show on the records search as I was never convicted of it. The records search shows the two misdemeanors that I was convicted of only. The California court clerk sent me a letter saying they no longer have information on things that were not convictions (as you stated as well). It would seem to me that the fact there is not a conviction associated with the charge would be enough. However, TBI is not buying off on it. They want either nolle or dismissal paperwork that does not exist any longer. I've talked with the TICS unit on the phone and they haven't been entirely helpful. I've even offered to come in and show them the various documentation I have, but (cleverly) they do not have an office where I can go in and speak with someone. The bottom line here is TBIs decision is wrong and their basis for the decision is questionable at best. I'm just out of options at this point as to how to fix it.

[johnharris]

[price g]

I see at least one denial a month. To date, I have not experenced one that was not a paper work foul up with the clerks office. I advise my customers to have an attorney clear it up. A few phone calls in the right direction from someone who knows the system, will usually take care of it. TICs has not figured out that criminals don't buy their arms from gun stores.

[gotigers]

this is the exact same thing that happened to me. I had a "issue" 10 years ago. All charges dropped, but my county gov. is required to send in dispositions of convictions only. All other dispositions are left floating. TBI, denied me for it last april after years of no problems buying firearms. It took weeks of calling and visits to the court clerk. TBI finally told me to have the court clerk fax a clerk stamped/certified affidavit stating the disposition of the charges. TBI accepted this. TBI will not accept it from you. It must be sent from the court official. WIthin days i called TBI and i was getting a proceed. The bad record was gone. The fax number is on the TICS form and on the TICS sight. They did tell me it may take a while for the FBI to get the correct state records. So, this MAY show up again with the FBI for a few months.

Otherwise a lawyer and an expunngement.

I don't understand what happened to due process and being innocent until proven otherwise. I to thought the law said we could only be denied for felony convictions or domestic violence convictions. This is a behind the scenes gun control tool that smells like a violation of our rights.

[bcoron]

Hi, I recently got denied a purchase at a gun show. I have since filed an appeal. Does anyone know of a lawyer in this field that can help me get ahold of whatever is in my record causing this and possibly expunge it. I am a law abiding citizen (to a fault sometimes). In the last 20 years, by biggest offense is a speeding ticket that got reduced below a moving violation because I have a clean driving record. I don't wish to appeal every attempt to purchase. In this day an age, the gun you really want won't wait around for the government to say OK.

Bill