Should a Firearms Freedom Act lawsuit be filed in Tennessee?

[johnharris]

The question arises as the litigation by constitutionalists in Montana to enforce the Montana Firearms Freedom Act as to whether

a) the State of Tennessee, elected officials, individuals, and/or TFA should file a similar lawsuit to enforce Tennessee's 2009 Firearms Freedom Act; and

b) the State of Tennessee, elected officials, individuals, and/or TFA should seek permission to file amicus briefs in the Montana litigation.

Certainly, one would hope that the Tennessee Attorney General has the guts and dignity to file an action to protect the sovereignty of the State of Tennessee and the rights of its citizens under the 2009 Firearms Freedom Act. Hope is one thing. Given that the attorney general is a close friend of Governor Bredesen and appointed by the Tennessee Supreme Court (and thus not necessarily the watchdog for Tennessee's rights or those of its citizens), it is perhaps unrealistic to expect the state attorney general to move forward unless some new law is passed to require him to do so.

Certainly, as happened with the Heller case, we might hope to see any number of elected officials and candidates for office in the 2010 election year seek to file amicus briefs in the Montana litigation - but we must demand that they do so.

Certainly, individuals and business - perhaps Barrett firearms or other firearms and/or ammunition makers and/or even retail dealers - would step forward and seek to file amicus briefs in Montana and/or even a lawsuit in Tennessee.

Certainly, one might consider whether TFA could or should step forward to protect the interests of its members. I cannot speak for the other groups but its my opinion that TFA should but doing so will take a commitment from its membership to raise litigation funds and perhaps even a network of constitutionally minded attorneys and paralegals who are willing to invested pro bono and/or reduced compensation time to pursue this matter.

I would like to see the opinions of TFA members on these issues.

[Tim Nunan]

Sounds like a plan. Go for it.

[TacticaLogic]

John, can you give us an estimate of what we would need financially in order to press forward with a suit such as you describe? It is going to be time consuming and we can not (should not) expect someone to work something of this nature pro bono. Not being negative - just trying to show people what we need to be doing as far as funding...

-Mike

[C. Richard Archie]

I would surmise that the chances that our AG would involve himself in this endeavor are two, none, and absolutely none.

If we want representation for our Rights, it will be up to us to provide it. It is a sad comment on the times in which we live, that what we have as leaders are determined to foster their own version of government, with no concern for the opinions, wishes, wants or desires of the electorate.

The referenced Act was duly enacted by the Legislature of Tennessee, under the color of legality and with adherence to the U.S. Constitution. However, a bureaucracy that strives mightily to "Hope to Change" the freedoms enjoyed by the People is hard at work, doing it's best to limit the voice of that People by intimidation and executive fiat.

You can count on my support for the suit to be filed, I owe it to my Grand Children, and to the countless Patriots who have sacrificed their lives, blood and treasure for my ability to live Free at their expense.

[johnharris]

I have received several emails outside the forum and comments from other sources supporting the idea of getting involved in the litigation. Many ask - what is it going to cost. That typically is nothing more than an indicator of how much do I need to give or are you expecting of me and I suspect most are wondering is this a need for $50, $100, $250, $500 ?

Truly, the freedoms of this Country from England's tyranny did not come solely by citizens writing checks or bringing in chickens and pigs but those contributions were also necessary. Some walked away from their farms, businesses and families and died for freedom from tyranny. Some left for a year or more to return a veteran and often crippled by the war physically or mentally. Others gave substantial resources who were not physically able to contribute to the resistance of tyranny. The Gibson movie, the Patriot, which I somehow seem to end up watching about 6 to 10 times a year, reflects on the surface only some of these sacrifices but resistance to tyranny and abuse does not come cheap when the adversary uses our tax dollars and resources to oppress us.

The issue of standing up for the rights of individuals and the states against a federal government that pays no honor to the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, the sovereignty of the states or individual freedoms is not - yet - as serious as the oppression that our Founders perceived from the tyrant in England but some might say its just a matter of time and that we and the individual states are clearly finding ourselves on the path not far behind where they stood. Certainly, can we say with truthfulness that any state can now claim any more sovereignty vis-a-vis Congressional action and federal regulation than the colonies and states claimed in the early and mid 1700's of the King?

The concept of the Firearms Freedom Act arises under the 2nd, 9th and 10th Amendments. In essence, it arises under the Bill of Rights which was created because of concerns that the proposed federal government might be too powerful. Can anyone imagine the language of the Bill of Rights that would have been drafted had our Founding Fathers had a crystal ball to clearly see what the federal government has cancerously morphed into? It would not be a mere 10 amendments.

What is it going to cost to demand that the 10th Amendment, the 2nd Amendment, the 9th Amendment and other provisions protecting the rights of the citizens and the states against the federal government be given at a minimum equal status with the overly abused commerce clause? A related question may be what was the effectiveness of the Declaration of Independence in resolving amicably the disagreement with England?

At this point, litigation in federal court will certainly cost a few thousand in filing fees and out of pocket expenses (copying, fedex, postage, etc.) What about compensation to those who carry the torch in the courtroom? Even at substantially discounted hourly rates, I would anticipate such fees could easily reach into six figures if not more. I wouland/or to develop that experience through resCertainly, Obama and Holder would not give a moments thought to the cost nor likely did King George.

All I can say is its going to cost more than we contemplate at this time because, in all probability, a district court will rule against the state and the citizens. An appellate court (TN is in the 6th Federal Circuit) would likely rule against the state and the citizens. Frankly, the US Supreme Court would probably rule against us because of prior cases since the accelerated expansion of the federal government from early in the 1900's that expansively and "benevolently" construed the commerce clause as limitless so long as there was any impact - no matter how small - on commerce such as opining that ingredients to make BBQ sauce could come from across state lines and thereby impact commerce. Our modern courts and Supreme Court seldom construe the Constitution protectively toward the states or the individuals - the tendency is to construe it toward the validation of federal authority as expansively as possible.

But how much to get started? If attorneys would work at half hourly rates, perhaps $50,000 or $75,000 would last a significant time. Part of the concern would be that once you get involved in such a case, you do not and cannot afford to go to the court as seek permission to withdraw because the money dried up.

From a 10th Amendment perspective, if every Tennessean contributed $1 per person, we would be well funded. If every permit holder contributed $20 per person, we would be well funded. If every gun dealer contributed $1000, we would be well funded. Its an inverse correlation. As the number of contributors decline, the amount per contribution rapidly increases.

[TacticaLogic]

Thanks, John... That is the type of information that I was seeking.

Based upon your specific answers, and the thoughts contained within your post, I start to question whether or not an attempt to bring about true recognition by the federal government of the 10th amendment (and the others) is worth the time, expense, and effort... I am starting to believe that those funds might be better spent in securing the proper instruments whereby physical corrective action can be achieved.

When peaceful correction is thwarted by corrupt government, violent revolution is going to be the result... Sooner or later, something has to give. Just sayin...

-Mike

[backwoodsman]

well Mike , I'm just saying what your saying and have been saying for, well, decades now. He who has all the gold make's all the rules, even if and especially more so when they are in the wrong, This government is so corrupt and overgrown, our forefathers would have declared a revolution long ago.They currently have the luxury of being in power with the so-called law on their side, completely ignoring the fact that they are blatantly and with purpose subverting the constitution, so if you push to hard, they declare you an enemy of the state, an enemy combatant, which currently gives them the power to ignore habeas corpus, it happened while bush was in office, and is still in place. That is what some people call slavery, me being one of them. sooooooo, how long before the other shoe hits the floor ?,,,, now I'm just saying, that when you push the cart down hill, it hits bottom before you can push it back up again

[johnharris]

Perhaps, the solution is to pursue both options until one becomes an inevitable solution....

[Dan Lee]

In light of the revelations in the video below, I feel that two of the next frontiers we really need to concentrate on is re-enforcing the Tennessee Firearms Freedom act., & abolishing Class III limits. Col. Michael Boatner who runs the United States Northern Command, which now OPERATES on U.S. Soil, claims that his force has a right to carry their fully automatic weapons HERE IN OUR STREETS for "self defense". Yet, you and I are prohibited from having them without jumping through hoops & paying through the nose? This is a travesty, & it's dangerous to our Liberty. Please see the following video.. I'm writing to our Senator & Reps..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gewp3aVWku4

[johnharris]

TFA can work towards both but its going to take more people getting on board and more funding for projects such as these. We have tremendous opportunities for our membership to get behind these issues.

[Dan Lee]

John I agree with you completely.. We need a PAC of some sort, that raises extra money just for Legal Fees.. I can honestly say that I have given extra money above & beyond fees for memberships in several second amendment organizations like the TFA, but it's going to take an effort from all the members across the board.. I've mentioned it before, but it got kind of a cold reception unfortunately.. I know that some people are already doing that, don't get me wrong, but it's going to take for everyone to dig deep..

[redbarron06]

Not only do I think that all of the above should be persued but we should expand our states rights by passing another 10A bill that would for example cover alcohol. Get companies like Jack Daniels involved. Afterall this is untimatly not about 2A but about 9 and 10A. After all a "Tennessee Alcohol Freedom Act" would be telling the same unconstitutional federal office to shove it.

[johnharris]

[Dan Lee]

Yeah, I didn't know we had a PAC, but I'm glad to know it now.. I will volunteer, if you can give me some direction & materials to work with.. What the heck, I'm out of work anyway, might as well go around to gun shops/ranges & other places & see what I can do?

[johnharris]

Dan

TFA has materials for that we use at the gun shows, etc., for the organization and the memberships. Not sure we have ever put together a PAC packet since its mostly been word of mouth. We have some who have contributed for years.

First step might be actually creating an information flyer for the PAC. . .

[Dan Lee]

John, I'll be at the next meeting.. I have access to professional level scanning, editing software & printing equipment..

[johnharris]

[RichardAHamblen]

You all do know that you have a TFA member who is already attacking the very basis of all gun control laws (the NFA of 1934) and who is filing a petition for writ of certiorari with the Supreme Court as you read this, don't you? And at his own expense, too? And just what are you doing to even educate yourself on this case, much less offer assistance? Read about it in the posts I have made on other threads on this site. Search "RichardAHamblen". I will be at the February meeting in Nashville. You people have no idea of the magnitude of the struggle facing you.